Τι είναι το bacha bazi?

[Freisinniger]

Girls are usually married at an early age. If a woman wants to change husbands, she will write a letter to her prospective husband offering herself in marriage and informing the would-be groom how much her current husband paid for her. This is because the new husband must pay double if he wants her. For example, if the current husband paid one cow for her, then the new husband must pay two cows to the original husband if he wants her.

Marriage by elopement is rather frequent, also involving women who are already married to another man. Indeed, wife-elopement is counted as one of the "great customs" (ghōna dastūr) together with the main festivals. Wife-elopement may lead in some rare cases to a quasi-feud between clans until peace is negotiated by mediators, in the form of the double bride-price paid by the new husband to the ex-husband.[15]

Κάτι αντίστοιχο έκαναν στην Σπάρτη οι γυναίκες, αλλά όχι επί πληρωμής

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash_people

The men must be divided into two parties: the pure ones have to sing the well-honored songs of the past, but the impure sing wild, passionate, and obscene songs, with an altogether different rhythm. This is accompanied by a 'sex change': men dress as women, women as men (Balumain also is partly seen as female and can change between both forms at will).

This includes the Festival of the Budulak (buḍáḷak, the 'shepherd king'). In this festival, a strong prepubescent boy is sent up into the mountains to live with the goats for the summer. He is supposed to get fat and strong from the goat milk. When the festival comes he is allowed for a 24-hour period only to have sexual intercourse with any woman he wants, including even the wife of another man, or a young virgin. Any child born of this 24-hour period is considered to be blessed. The Kalash claim to have abolished this practice in recent years due to negative worldwide publicity.

Απ ότι βλέπω αυτά τα έθιμα είναι σπαρτιάτικα, πιθανόν σε μια μίξη με τους ντόπιους να ανακάτεψαν και θεούς, έθιμα ενδυμασία κλπ.

At this crucial moment the pure get weaker, and the impure try to take hold of the (very pure) boys, pretend to mount them "like a hornless ram", and proceed in snake procession. At this point, the impure men resist and fight. When the "nagayrō" song with the response "han sarías" (from *samrīyate 'flows together', CDIAL 12995) is voiced, Balumain showers all his blessings and disappears. He gives his blessings to seven boys (representing the mythical seven of the eight Devalog who received him on arrival), and these pass the blessings on to all pure men.

[Freisinniger]

However, there is a special role for prepubescent boys, who are treated with special awe, combining pre-sexual behavior and the purity of the high mountains, where they tend goats for the summer month. Purity is very much stressed and centered around altars, goat stables, the space between the hearth and the back wall of houses and in festival periods; the higher up in the valley, the more pure the location.[17]

By contrast, women (especially during menstruation and giving birth), as well as death and decomposition and the outside (Muslim) world are impure, and, just as in the Veda and Avesta, many cleansing ceremonies are required if impurity occurs.[17]

Δεν είναι τίποτα αυτό ρε. Αυτό έχει να κάνει με την ακαθαρσία ή την κάθαρσις - αγνότητα, θυσιάζουν γίδια και άλλα ζώα κλπ. Βασικά είναι κακογραμμένο, ούτε εγώ έβγαλα νόημα.

παραπάνω όμως λέει ότι ανταλλάσσουν ενδυμασίες, οι γυναίκες ντύνονται άνδρες και οι άνδρες γυναίκες. Μόνο αυτή η διαφορά υπάρχει, ωστόσο δεν έχει παρατηρηθεί κάτι αντίστοιχο με παιδοφιλία.

[ВладимирВладимирович]

Κοίτα, εγώ στην αρχή διάβαζα για το έθιμο στα ρωσικά και βρικα ένα ενδιαφέρον κείμενο ενός ρώσου ζωγράφου (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Vereshchagin) που έχει ταξιδέψει εκεί και περιέγραφε το έθιμο όπως ηταν τοτε (τέλη του 19 αιώνα). Το μεταφρασα στο γοογλε, διάβαζε το

Interestingly, although unofficial, and not all of the available representations begins when an official, that is dancing and singing ended. Here begins a feast Butch, continued for a long time - a very strange meal for a little familiar with indigenous customs and traditions. I went into the room during one of the scenes of backstage and found a picture: a wall is important and proudly sits a small batch; high vzdёrnuvshi her nose and narrowed his eyes, he looks all around haughtily, with the consciousness of their dignity; from him along the walls around the room, sit next to each other, cross-legged, kneeling, Sart different species, sizes and ages - young and old, small and tall, thin and thick - all buried with his elbows on his knees and possibly bent , fondly looking at Butch; they are watching his every move, caught his eyes, listening to his every word. Lucky, whose boy honors its look and even more short, meet the most respectful, obsequious way, crouched beforehand from the face of his, and the whole figure kind of utter insignificance and make baht (born greetings, consisting jerked his beard), adding continuously for more respect, the word "TAXES" (the Emperor). Who will have the honor to submit anything Butch cup if tea or anything else, he will do it only as crawling, kneeling and is sure to make pre baht. The boy takes it for granted, it is proper, and no express gratitude for it does not consider itself obliged

Μιλάμε λοιπόν για πραγματική λατρεία του bacha.
Επίσης, bacha μπορεί να είναι μόνο έφηβος στην ηλικία όπου δεν εχει τρίχες στο πρόσωπο (bacha berish λέγεται).
Αν δεν βλέπεις την σύνδεση μεταξύ του παραπάνω και των εθίμων των καλάς τότε παω πάσο :s_dunno

[Freisinniger]

Άλλο λέει παραπάνω

However, there is a special role for prepubescent boys, who are treated with special awe, combining pre-sexual behavior and the purity of the high mountains, where they tend goats for the summer month. Purity is very much stressed and centered around altars, goat stables, the space between the hearth and the back wall of houses and in festival periods; the higher up in the valley, the more pure the location.

και αυτό που παρέθεσες έτσι όπως το έβαλες βγάζει νόημα για Μπάχα αλλά βάλε μου το λινκ αμετάφραστο

Τι είναι το Μπάχα;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

[ВладимирВладимирович]

Ειναι από την Ρωσική έκδοση του ίδιου άρθρου https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Бача-бази
"Μπαχα" είναι bacha, σημαίνει παιδι/αγορι. Εσύ το διαβαζεις σαν γερμανική )))

[ВладимирВладимирович]

Εχεις δει αυτό; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köçek

[Freisinniger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_posh

Η λέξη πούστης πάντως προέρχεται από τους ιρανούς, μέσω των τούρκων

νομίζω απο την λέξη posh

Μου την έλεγε ένας Τατζίκιος Αυγανός από την δουλειά και είχε μείνει κάτι χρόνια στην Ελλάδα, αλλά την έλεγε «πόστς», είχα ρωτήσει λοιπόν μερικούς από αυτούς αν υπάρχουν έλληνες με ελληνικά έθιμα στο Αφγανιστάν και μου είπαν ότι υπάρχει μια πόλη και μια περιοχή.

από τι βλέπω ήταν κάποτε και μεσαιωνικό ευρωπαϊκό έθιμο

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)

[Freisinniger]

Εχεις δει αυτό; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köçek

Κάτι λέει για τους Δερβίσιδες, θα τα διαβάσω όλα αύριο, πέρασε η ώρα.

Πάντως απ ότι φαίνεται αυτό το έθιμο προέρχεται από Ιραν, Αφγανιστάν και Τατζικιστάν, μπορεί και στην Μογγολία κιόλας. Εντελώς ασσιατικό, ίσως και στην Ινδία να υπάρχει κάτι αντίστοιχο, κάπου είχα δει ένα ντοκυμαντέρ.

[ВладимирВладимирович]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_posh

https://el.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ορκισμένες_Παρθένες

[Freisinniger]

Το δα και αυτό, γυναίκες που γίνονται άντρες. Απ ότι φαίνεται μιλάμε για ήθη και έθιμα για τον πούτσο, αναρωτιέμαι πως επιβιώνουν ακόμη σε ΕΕ;